Tuesday, April 12, 2011

You celebrate: we will praise Jesus!

Has it occurred to John Shuck who posted this, Celebration Without Apology, that the orthodox in the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) will still go on being the orthodox even if 10-A passes.

What do I mean?

Well first I mean that the orthodox will keep loving John Shuck in Christ and praying that Jesus walks in on him someday and surprises him, just like he did to C.S. Lewis’ wife, Joy Davidson, who was a Jewish atheist. (Aslan treads the Tennessee hills not just England’s green glades.)

But what else does it mean, when I say that the orthodox will stay orthodox. It does mean that some will leave. That will be God’s judgment on a denomination that wants to cater to the decadence of the world. And it means that some will try to find a way to serve God within the denomination without feeling they have compromised their faith.

But what else does it mean. It means that the denomination will still be full of people that know what the Bible and the Confessions say and believe what they say. They know that the Bible says that same gender sex is sin. They know that the Confessions say so too. Yes the Larger Catechism does say that Sodomy is a sin and so is unnatural lust. And they will still insist that those who ask to be ordained live a righteous life repenting of the sin (any sin) in their life.

But what else does it mean. It means that the orthodox will be more clearly aware that once one particular non-Christian practice is allowed everything else is up for grabs because Satan is set on destroying any institution that has lifted up Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. It is Jesus that Satan really hates. He hates because Jesus has already won the real victory, the victory over sin and death. It is the orthodox who are aware that as sinners they have been redeemed by a loving Lord who will keep them in his care through everything that falls their way.

So John, and anyone else who wants to, celebrate, skip, dance, but be aware Aslan roams the hills everywhere. And although he is good, he isn’t safe.


Doug Hagler said...

Yes, the "orthodox" will continue to insist on their orthodoxy...and we'll try hard to continue being patient with you.

Stushie said...

The sharks are in the water again...:)
I look forward to the day when the Church will repent of this and be revived by the truth of the Holy Spirit.
This apostate generation will be rejected by their own offspring who will return to the Lord and seek His forgiveness.

Viola Larson said...

You know Stushie that happened in the 60s and 70's and I got to be a part of it. I also pray that the Holy Spirit will revive us all again.

John Shuck said...

I'm glad you're still going to love me. But If I find any lions a prowlin' round here, I'm a gonna shoot 'em.

John Shuck
Daniel Boone Country, TN

Viola Larson said...

You won't be able to shoot the one I'm talking about John.

Anonymous said...

What a blessing it is to be revived by the Holy Spirit as individuals while we wait and pray for a corporate revival.

Bruce Byrne
Concord, Ca

Ralph E. Nelson said...

And there are those of us who realize that it isn't going to make as much difference as some people think; that most churches and presbyteries are not going to ordain certain people anyway; that this is all part of an unfolding that none of us can fully understand or pontificate about; and that positively it returns the church to the principle that ordination belongs in the hands of congregations and presbyteries where it was prior to 1978. Never ask a national body to do for you what should be done at a lower level where everyone's sense of responsibility comes in to play. Ralph E. Nelson

B said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
John McNeese said...

B -

It bothers me not at all who other churches or presbyteries choose to ordain and install. The reverence paid to this archaic institution called ordination is idolatrous, especially the inference that those who are ordained have attained a certain level of purity and righteousness over and above the rest of us. I guess I will have to be thankful that we don't have to genuflect and kiss rings.

I would imagine the full inclusion of gay and lesbian persons will be just as successful as the inclusion of women was fifty years ago. Drip, drip, drip.   

Fidelis said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Presbyman said...

The thing is, as a denomination we have NOT trusted local bodies, such as Presbyteries, to ordain who they feel should be ordained, IF the person in question cannot affirm the ordination of women by participating in said ordinations. Everything else about that candidate may be exemplary. But that does not matter, because the denomination has privileged one particular reading of Scripture (held at this time by a small minority of Christian churches worldwide, and still rejected by the two largest Christian Churches in the US (the Roman Catholic Church and the Southern Baptist Convention). So arguments that we are somehow returning to traditional deference to local authority rings hollow to me. The harsh and legalistic treatment meted out to folks like Rev. Kenyon show how much our church values local ordination decisions when it is a question PROGRESSIVES feel strongly about.

John Erthein
DeFuniak Springs, FL

Viola Larson said...

Someone deleted their post here for fear of future needs. Its too bad we have to live like that.

Jodie said...

"Someone deleted their post here for fear of future needs. Its too bad we have to live like that."

You being the cause of some of those fears, it is nice to hear you say that it's "too bad".

Or were you just being sarcastic?

Viola Larson said...

Jodie the person agreed with what I said and e-mailed me to explain his reason for deleting. I won't say any more.

Reformed Catholic said...


I fully understand the reasons behind the post removal. While others flaunt their beliefs (or lack of them) without fear, there are those who must lay low or else face charges of hate-monger.

And as long as "Orthodox" means faithful adherence to the Word of God, rather than the ways of the world, I'll be proud to say that I'm Orthodox.

Yet, for the sake of others, I too must remain somewhat anonymous.

Reformed Catholic,

Earl Tilford said...

Problem is, we as a denomination have been too patient with the un-orthodox. Tolerance is a narrow thing when dealing with a belief system. And it certainly is a very narrow thing when dealing with truth. Something either is true or it is false.

What John Shuck espouses is false. It's not "absolutely false," because there is no such thing as "absolute" falseness. If something is not true it is false.

In the Garden of Eden, mankind's fist mistake was to decide the created could know better than the Creator. Satan already made that mistake and was there to seduce us.

As a denomination, we are making that mistake...AGAIN. We've had a long history of making that mistake and the result has been tolerance for the likes of John Shuck.

Earl Tilford
First Presbyterian Church
Tuscaloosa, AL

John Shuck said...

"Tolerance for the likes of John Shuck."

That has a nice ring to it.

E-ton, TN

Earl Tilford said...

A better "ring" would be the pealing of chimes, a long, thunderous ringing of bells to herald the news, "John Shuck de-frocked!" It won't happen, of course, because that would take rigor and obedience to Scripture and standards long absent in a denomination with the theological rigor of an overcooked noodle.

And Mr. McNeese, ordination is not about attaining "a level of purity and righteousness" superior to anyone. It is about obedience to Scripture and the realization that we are sinners and that any sin, even the practice of sexual perversion as in sodomy, can be repented and forgiven.

That's the way it is and humans changing that standard in the name of some kind of perverted notion of "social justice" will never make it right.

Earl Tilford
First Presbyterian Church
Tuscaloosa, AL

John Shuck said...

Well, Mr. Tilford, it is as easy as filling out blank forms in the Book of Order. You could do it as well as anyone. It is easier to whine, cry, blow smoke, and do nothing isn't it? If you have some proof of wrong-doing against me, then file a charge. But you won't because that would take "rigor and obedience to scripture" of which you are incapable.


Earl Tilford said...

I'll pray about it. Hmmm, reading from the Quran in a Presbyterian church service (notice I didn't use the word "Christian") and ending a Presbyterian sermon with an Islamic prayer. It's likely a denomination that condones pagan rites to the goddess Sophia will have courts in which you will be safe. You will answer to a higher court. And there may be hell to pay.

T-Town, AL

John Shuck said...

Well you go ahead and pray about it and in the meantime we will continue do ministry.

E-ton, TN