tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post82962186239056877..comments2024-03-12T08:04:47.314-07:00Comments on Naming His Grace: Dietrich Bonhoeffer on obeying a heretical church Viola Larsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09146967423654966140noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-39575130857759440422014-08-23T22:00:41.588-07:002014-08-23T22:00:41.588-07:00Jodie, if I remember rightly, I corrected this bef...Jodie, if I remember rightly, I corrected this before. It wasn't the "State run German Lutheran Church" that Bonhoeffer was disagreeing with. It was the German Christians and their control of a federation of churches called the German Evangelical church which was a combination of Lutheran, Reformed and United Churches. And that term evangelical does not have the same definition as evangelical in the United States.<br /><br />The German Christians were a party that had formed before Hitler came to power. They were preceded by the league for a German Church which was formed in 1921. As Arthur Cochrane states: "[they] strove to reform the Church along nationalistic lines and to free it from its 'Judaistic' characteristics."<br /><br />As to the German Christians as Cochrane stated: "The 'German Christians' regarded from the standpoint of Christian faith, were a liberal, nationalistic sect which, at the initiative of the National Socialist Party, formed a union of various schools and groups. These schools and groups, in spite of all differences, were united in their nationalistic tendencies and liberal Christianity."<br /><br />To go back to the German league, they "demanded that the Old Testament no longer be accepted as canonical, that Paul's rabbinic principle of redemption be done away; and that Jesus death be presented as a heroic sacrifice in line with German mysticism."<br /><br />Most of the German Christians carried on these same beliefs. And how many times have I heard Presbyterian theologians and pastors suggest that parts of the Old Testament could not possibly be true. How many deny the redemption of Jesus Christ by his death on the cross. We are moving in that direction. We are not there--it is not the same events but the patterns are the same. Viola Larsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09146967423654966140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-69225383475464002022014-08-23T21:21:42.735-07:002014-08-23T21:21:42.735-07:00Jeff I am glad this helps. The comparison cannot b...Jeff I am glad this helps. The comparison cannot be drawn to tightly but the outline is the same. One of the things that should make us shudder is the fact that the Nazis were forcing their several euthanasia programs which did kill all of those they found unworthy of life. Here we have not only secular society, but also supposedly Christians willing to kill those they consider unworthy of life including children aborted alive. Viola Larsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09146967423654966140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-40500149931639886822014-08-23T12:55:58.938-07:002014-08-23T12:55:58.938-07:00Viola,
Projecting Bonhoeffer's polemic with t...Viola,<br /><br />Projecting Bonhoeffer's polemic with the State run German Lutheran Church onto the disagreement you have with the PCUSA both trivializes the real catastrophe that occurred in Germany in the 30s and 40s that spawned the cruel death of 10s of millions and the suffering hardship of 100s of millions of people around the globe, but it also blows your complaint against the PCUSA so out of proportion that it makes it impossible to address. <br /><br />If people like Jeff Winter use such rhetoric with their Sessions it will only sow discord and factionalism in the church, without providing any hope of the Gospel being heard. <br /><br />I seriously doubt that was Bonhoeffer's intent. <br /><br />I dare say he viewed the totality of American Christianity - liberal and conservative - in a whole different light than he viewed what was happening in Germany in his time. <br /><br />Jodie Gallo<br />Los Angeles, CAAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-75232022251509371212014-08-23T10:05:39.076-07:002014-08-23T10:05:39.076-07:00I am blessed and greatly encouraged in my spirit b...I am blessed and greatly encouraged in my spirit by reading this Viola. Thank you for making the parallels between Bonhoffer and the PCUSA. I will use this piece with my session. Jeff Winterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10142996112736793481noreply@blogger.com