tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post8171136503144267502..comments2024-03-12T08:04:47.314-07:00Comments on Naming His Grace: Dead dogma and the living Word of GodViola Larsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09146967423654966140noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-56018918837545563312013-05-05T20:32:30.342-07:002013-05-05T20:32:30.342-07:00Will,
I agree with you on every point. Some who ar...Will,<br />I agree with you on every point. Some who are evangelical, or not, want to get rid of that identity without really understanding what it has stood for in the past. There are so many words that we keep losing.Viola Larsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09146967423654966140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-40004854288906204132013-05-05T05:47:33.379-07:002013-05-05T05:47:33.379-07:00I don't rightly know what to do about the '...I don't rightly know what to do about the 'baggage' words carry. I have often thought we needed a new vocabulary. But I have noticed that if we start to change them - if we're afraid of them - we'll always be chasing words. <br /><br />For someone who abhors the content of the words, it is an easy way to make conversation impossible. <br /><br />You cut off things historically written using those words. By doing that you cut people off from thoughts from the past that were insightful and valuable. There is a tendency to become 'fashion conscious' and overly 'current' in our thinking. <br /><br />Worse still, most of the time, the fear of words is the fear of the insult carried by them. We make the change because we don't want to be "those people" ... people we ourselves associate with the words. This is very easily skewed into elitism and cowardice. <br /><br />My point here is that that approach simply gets us off track and doesn't solve the problem. Half the time, words are used to demonize specific people or groups in ways that simply aren't true - and if we play the game, we feed into that slander.will spottshttp://wspotts.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-35725102877238193452013-05-05T05:45:34.948-07:002013-05-05T05:45:34.948-07:00I don't rightly know what to do about the '...I don't rightly know what to do about the 'baggage' words carry. I have often thought we needed a new vocabulary. But I have noticed that if we start to change them - if we're afraid of them - we'll always be chasing words. <br /><br />For someone who abhors the content of the words, it is an easy way to make conversation impossible. <br /><br />You cut off things historically written using those words. By doing that you cut people off from thoughts from the past that were insightful and valuable. There is a tendency to become 'fashion conscious' and overly 'current' in our thinking. <br /><br />Worse still, most of the time, the fear of words is the fear of the insult carried by them. We make the change because we don't want to be "those people" ... people we ourselves associate with the words. This is very easily skewed into elitism and cowardice. <br /><br />My point here is that that approach simply gets us off track and doesn't solve the problem. Half the time, words are used to demonize specific people or groups in ways that simply aren't true - and if we play the game, we feed into that slander.will spottshttp://wspotts.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-57675413249714536812013-05-04T11:37:59.716-07:002013-05-04T11:37:59.716-07:00Well, I remember some where, Bonhoeffer asking if ...Well, I remember some where, Bonhoeffer asking if the church needed to have its own separate language-he never answered his own question, but I think perhaps he was on to something. <br /><br />However, the person who wrote that dogma was uninteresting denies all christian beliefs so I don't think I want to drop the word for him.<br /><br />On the other hand it isn't the word that he is angry with, it is the 'stuff' that fills the word with meaning so perhaps your idea of dropping the word and only talking about the 'stuff' might be helpful. Viola Larsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09146967423654966140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-36665918924880691562013-05-04T10:26:28.529-07:002013-05-04T10:26:28.529-07:00On the "usefulness" of words, I have fou...On the "usefulness" of words, I have found that almost any truly biblical word, not matter how mangled by culture, can somehow be retrieved, set apart from what was attached to it wrongly and then used again in fresh way. Sometimes this can be done really swiftly with people and even helps (as in "did you know that 'holiness' simply means at the core 'set apart' for relationship with God and that means everyone?"...things like that). Words and phrases outside of that lexicon and merely related like "dogma" and even (I have been pondering this lately "systematic theology") may get so bound up with dead weight as to become useless or worse (derailing the conversation into an argument about dogma instead of about deeper issues) Personally, I would rather jettison the vehicle that has two flat tires, is one fire and is nearly out of gas reaizing that it had its time and place but was just that...a vehicle. That goes for the type of apologetics I use to do. I find that 80% of what I am really good at that way is utterly superfluous in the current context. It would be silly to insist on arguing THOSE points just because I am good at it. What is nice is that the 20% remaining (Canonicity, Relativism, and Contextualization) are much needed and used regularly. IMO I'd remove their target (dogma) altogther, and shift simply to the wide platform of overall biblical truth. Then at any and all places the real issue comes to bear. Whereas presently they can attach a "dogma" and paint it as evil. Better (IMO) to make opponents come right out and attack and deny scripture. <br /><br />By the way, dear friend, I have been actually employing this in real situations online with "progressives" and despite my reputation for political liberalism (which is no longer true...I am non-political) there is absolutely nothing liberal about me biblically. The result after months of respectful encounters is that have simply fled. Obi-Mac BakDonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09483155275518596803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-85133175893355452672013-05-02T16:20:18.057-07:002013-05-02T16:20:18.057-07:00Yes, you were. Sorry if I made it sound different....Yes, you were. Sorry if I made it sound different.<br />Viola Larsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09146967423654966140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-72875120667968181842013-05-02T16:03:39.589-07:002013-05-02T16:03:39.589-07:00I did read your post. I was reacting positively, I...I did read your post. I was reacting positively, I thought.Neilnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-43832929073539042942013-05-02T14:42:47.708-07:002013-05-02T14:42:47.708-07:00Neil,
Of course if you read my post I'm not su...Neil,<br />Of course if you read my post I'm not suggesting that dogma is dead or uninteresting, I believe with Sayers that it is the very drama of our faith. <br /><br />But on the other hand traditionalism can be deadly, but not always. Jesus accused the Pharisees of exchanging their traditions for the commandments of God. And Paul commends the Corinthians because they hold to the traditions, also, undoubtedly meaning the word of God. <br /><br />Whether it is God's word or our own made up way of doing and being I think makes the difference. Viola Larsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09146967423654966140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-55406450791128754702013-05-02T13:41:51.806-07:002013-05-02T13:41:51.806-07:00Even before reading your post and noticing only th...Even before reading your post and noticing only the title I remembered two remarks that I think may be pertinent. The first one comes from Jaroslav Pelikan, my teacher of many years ago. It appears early in the first volume his magnum opus, The Christian Tradition: "Tradition is the living faith of the dead; traditionalism is the dead faith of the living."<br /><br />The second quote is one I ran across recently while reading Kevin Vanhoozer’s The Drama of Doctrine and may be even more pertinent by means of its cautionary assertion: “Biblical scholars should not be too surprised if, having cast out the ‘evil spirit’ of dogmatic theology, seven others, more wicked still, rush in to take its place.” (20)<br /><br />If nothing else the image is priceless.Neil D. Cowlingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-18847244129928703942013-05-02T09:43:59.201-07:002013-05-02T09:43:59.201-07:00Aha, I thought that was you. Love the name. Thanks...Aha, I thought that was you. Love the name. Thanks for the comment. This thought of yours, "only those who believe such find real escape at the speed of light," fantastic. And that escape can be had while staying in place or leaving. <br /><br />I don't know about getting rid of the word dogma it seems to me we keep ditching too many words. But you might be right.<br />Thanks MacViola Larsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09146967423654966140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-58010944046455039432013-05-02T07:37:36.516-07:002013-05-02T07:37:36.516-07:00My past association with the PCUSA afford me some ...My past association with the PCUSA afford me some inside view and then an outsiders view the last 20 years. If it did not involve many lives the statement "Many of us are moving away from exclusive claims ("Jesus is the only way") and literalism ("bodily resurrection") at light speed." would be truly amusing as only those who believe such find real escape at the speed of Light and those who do not end up with a bunch of empty buildings not because the "rapture" has happened but simply because all they have to offer is dead religiosity, the shuffling of paper, and capitulation to whatever causes need a light mystical sprinkle. From what I have heard, church after church has simply yanked themselves from the denomination and not simply over social issues, with more on the way. This "exodus" is the living part of the denomination "jumping to light speed", leaving the slow, cumbersome, religious hulk in space that cannot. <br />"Dogma" is a boring word and we need a better one since that one will always carry with it associations that now make it unusable. It's just a word. "Sound teaching" is just as good, and sidesteps what unthinking reactionaries start frothing about when they hear "dogma" IMO. Obi-Mac BakDonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09483155275518596803noreply@blogger.com