tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post6563807383581262163..comments2024-03-12T08:04:47.314-07:00Comments on Naming His Grace: Leaving & Staying in Faithfulness: looking at various church ages & movements 2Viola Larsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09146967423654966140noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-49090424162665382002011-08-11T09:13:04.904-07:002011-08-11T09:13:04.904-07:00Let us remember that while Luther stated that he d...Let us remember that while Luther stated that he did not leave, he had the support of the civil government, who came to his aid, protected him, preserved his life, family, living, and property, against a "church" that had real civil power in the 16th century. It was also a day when there was not "denominationalism" as we know it today. All of that complicates the issue. <br />Calvin's situation was different. He did leave the Roman Church, and found refuge in Geneva, which had separated itself from the Roman Church the year before. There was no bull of excommunication issued against Calvin, unless I am mistaken.Rev. Walter L. Taylorhttp://www.okipresbyterian.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-55524086445302906642011-08-11T08:34:02.879-07:002011-08-11T08:34:02.879-07:00Kevin,
I almost put that quote in my posting. It ...Kevin,<br />I almost put that quote in my posting. It is a great quote about how the word of God works.Viola Larsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09146967423654966140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-13393735290260167172011-08-11T06:23:47.231-07:002011-08-11T06:23:47.231-07:00A relevant quote from Martin Luther:
"I opp...A relevant quote from Martin Luther: <br /><br />"I opposed indulgences and all the papists, but never with force. I simply taught, preached, and wrote God's Word; otherwise I did nothing. And while I slept , or drank Wittenberg beer with my friends Philip and Amsdorf, the Word so greatly weakened the papacy that no prince or emperor ever inflicted such losses upon it. I did nothing; the Word did it all." <br /><br />May the Grace of the Lord be with you all as God's Word guides you.Kevin T. Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14418480646891851859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-71560283997603854422011-08-09T23:20:09.078-07:002011-08-09T23:20:09.078-07:00Yes, my church is withdrawing also. I don't bl...Yes, my church is withdrawing also. I don't blame them, we just all must follow Christ and his word. But it is very hard how ever it goes.Viola Larsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09146967423654966140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-79351418909618463242011-08-09T22:48:05.444-07:002011-08-09T22:48:05.444-07:00I apologize. I think you are right that it is very...I apologize. I think you are right that it is very complicated. I am going through the thing of my old home church withdrawing from the denomination, and it is very emotional for me. I think that for Calvin it was complicated. I can't help thinking that there was an emotional involvement fo rhim; the way his father (who worked for the cathedral at Noyon) and his older brother (who was a priest) were excommunicated for various reasons.dennistheeremitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10801567321734091885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-37057053759239350572011-08-09T10:17:15.437-07:002011-08-09T10:17:15.437-07:00James & Dennis thank you both for your respond...James & Dennis thank you both for your responds,<br /><br />James I have been reading that part of the institutes lately. Thanks for posting it. However, I thank perhaps I wasn’t clear enough, not every story of the reformers is the same except they all began with the word of God, the Bible working into their hearts. This is always God’s word and work, and I do not believe it can be stopped. <br /><br />Dennis, I get the impression that you didn’t read my first paragraph, or did you just disagree and didn’t want to say so.Viola Larsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09146967423654966140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-68578333629004449262011-08-09T10:15:56.904-07:002011-08-09T10:15:56.904-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Viola Larsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09146967423654966140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-77592851172090988862011-08-09T10:03:07.604-07:002011-08-09T10:03:07.604-07:00Pastor Dennis, please read again the last sentence...Pastor Dennis, please read again the last sentence of my previous post. John Calvin wrote, "It behooved us to withdraw from them that we might come to Christ." That is to say, Calvin himself said that he left the medieval church. There was no trial. There was no conviction. There very well may have been, if he had stayed around longer! But the point is that he left in order to come to Christ. I do not understand why you would say, in contradiction to Calvin, that the reformers did not leave the church.Dr. James C. Goodloe IVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08135405560895685571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-72661247054788500362011-08-09T09:26:57.751-07:002011-08-09T09:26:57.751-07:00I am dismayed at the biblical mess of our church, ...I am dismayed at the biblical mess of our church, but it should be remembered that the reformers didn't really leave the church. The church forbade them preaching, teaching, and ordering the church according to the word of God. And the church tried to kill them. Our church has not yet resorted to these tactics.dennistheeremitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10801567321734091885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-49820971999743769922011-08-09T08:50:53.382-07:002011-08-09T08:50:53.382-07:00John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion:...John Calvin, <i>Institutes of the Christian Religion</i>:<br /><br />Now they treat us as persons guilty of schism and heresy because we preach a doctrine unlike theirs, do not obey their laws, and hold our separate assemblies for prayers, baptism and the celebration of the Supper, and other holy activities.<br /><br />This is indeed a very grave accusation but one that needs no long and labored defense. Those who, by making dissension, break the communion of the church are called heretics and schismatics. Now this communion is held together by two bonds, agreement in sound doctrine and brotherly love. Hence, between heretics and schismatics Augustine makes this sort of distinction: heretics corrupt the sincerity of the faith with false dogmas; but schismatics, while sometimes even of the same faith, break the bond of fellowship.<br /><br />But it must also be noted that this conjunction of love so depends upon unity of faith that it ought to be its beginning, end, and, in fine, its sole rule. . . . Apart from the Lord’s Word there is not an agreement of believers but a faction of wicked men. (IV.2.5)<br /><br />Now let them go and shout that we who have withdrawn from their church are heretics, since the sole cause of our separation is that they could in no way bear the pure profession of truth. . . . It is enough for me that it behooved us to withdraw from them that we might come to Christ. (IV.2.6)Dr. James C. Goodloe IVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08135405560895685571noreply@blogger.com