tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post735893003025338166..comments2024-03-12T08:04:47.314-07:00Comments on Naming His Grace: The ACSWP:their summary of GA actions on the Middle East: is it true?Viola Larsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09146967423654966140noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-54251150573867869492010-09-04T00:17:02.141-07:002010-09-04T00:17:02.141-07:00Anonymous,
CHURCHandWORLD.com has a copy at http:/...Anonymous,<br />CHURCHandWORLD.com has a copy at http://www.churchandworld.com/PCUSA/2010/News/0902-ACSWP2.htm<br /><br />That is a subscription site but I believe you can get it free for a month. if you are a Presbyterian it is the best source. I have a link and an explanation on the side of my blog.<br /><br />Please next time leave your name and city.Viola Larsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09146967423654966140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-19081989683425226452010-09-03T23:43:51.470-07:002010-09-03T23:43:51.470-07:00Al the copies of this newletter seem to have vanis...Al the copies of this newletter seem to have vanished. Do you have a copy?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-56516391369660982592010-08-30T20:22:40.928-07:002010-08-30T20:22:40.928-07:00Will,
If you have been following my blog you will ...Will,<br />If you have been following my blog you will know I am right in the middle of a family crisis, but I would like to know where to find the list?Viola Larsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09146967423654966140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-73540300702273728542010-08-30T19:06:14.557-07:002010-08-30T19:06:14.557-07:00The members of the monitoring committee have been ...The members of the monitoring committee have been announced.will spottshttp://wspotts.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-31315101369746652272010-08-29T11:57:40.996-07:002010-08-29T11:57:40.996-07:00Viola - Like you, I apologize for taking so long t...Viola - Like you, I apologize for taking so long to respond.<br /><br />I concur that the ACSWP statements are egregious misrepresentations. I'm not 100% sure whether this is blatant dishonesty - the smugness in their tone lends credence to that interpretation - or whether the hopelessly confusing (self- contradictory) actions of the GA lend themselves to honest misinterpretation.<br /><br />Among other statements that raise eyebrows in this summary: "showed widespread understanding that the two-state solution is virtually impossible". I'm very certain that does not reflect official PC(USA) policy. YET - the net effect of the actions of the GA DO lend a credibility to that assertion. <br /><br />My concern is that Presbyterians who do not ordinarily support bigotry are letting themselves off the hook because of the "good things in the MESC report" - that they have been falsely assured exist. The actions taken still reflect the same problem: they hold Israel to a standard they do not apply to any other nation, they reflect a lack of balance IN INFORMATION UPON WHICH THE RECOMMENDATIONS ARE BASED - which is dishonest at best, and they turn a blind eye to the ongoing institutional PC(USA) problem with the Jewish people. They wink and nod at bigotry and seem to permit otherwise decent Presbyterians to feel somehow good about this.<br /><br />Will Spotts<br />North East, MDwill spottshttp://wspotts.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-74046850524875735172010-08-21T18:57:35.145-07:002010-08-21T18:57:35.145-07:00Will,
I am sorry to take so long to get back to yo...Will,<br />I am sorry to take so long to get back to you. If you read my latest post (Aug 21) you will see I have had my mind other places. You may be right about the military part-I read it differently. <br /><br />And of course "a Jewish State would be better." But having removed the notorious Historical Analysis is very big. And also the elimination of most of the committee from those who will monitor the work going on Middle East Peace is big. But of course we all have to keep our eyes and ears open to the possibility that all will be stacked badly again. And yell like crazy.<br /><br />I knew you were going to disagree. But I think you would agree that saying “The Middle East Report was approved virtually unchanged, with two appendices removed.” Is at least mis-leading.Viola Larsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09146967423654966140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-30439339462291090602010-08-20T02:56:44.221-07:002010-08-20T02:56:44.221-07:00The current Layman carries an article titled "...The current Layman carries an article titled "Christian-Muslim relations paper OK" (Overture 08-04 approved for "commending the paper to the denominations for study and guidance"). (You can find it on www.pc-biz.org)<br /><br />It calls for Presbyterians "to implement a program of shared community experiences that might include sharing meals, cultural events, and activities in mosques and churches together, and to develop an educational program that includes inviting a Muslim leader to offer instruction in a church and a Christian leader to offer instruction in a mosque].”<br />(That part was added to the original overture.)<br /><br />First, I believe that Christian-Muslim dialog would go a lot better if the Sunni-Shi'a dialog got under way. They have been attacking one another for about 1400 years.<br /><br />Next, given fundamental Islam's unbending stance in the East toward Christians - converts from Islam are routinely persecuted and often killed - they're not likely to take kindly to blasphemy in their mosques. (Isa was another prophet; the idea of God having a Son is inconceivable. And the Trinity is utter nonsense.)<br /><br />There is almost no common ground on which we can agree.<br /><br />Our problem is that there are too many good-hearted but soft-headed people, too willing to make any concession (I call it appeasement) to "just getting along", even when the lamb is not quite ready to get along with the lion.ZZMikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16913899667726940233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-11653653531476010632010-08-18T22:26:00.302-07:002010-08-18T22:26:00.302-07:00Viola - You're quite right about the egregious...Viola - You're quite right about the egregious dishonesty in the ACSWP summary. <br /><br />Nonetheless, I have to disagree with your estimation of what was actually done at the GA. The ACSWP summary has ONE point in its favor - where it is clearly accurate: the recommendations of the MESC were essentially passed. <br /><br />The horribly biased first portion was received only "as rationale". But if it is rationale for the action, taking the action implies it is somehow true or approved. <br /><br />Yes, you can point to a couple of changes in these recommendations - the most notable being the reaffirmation of the right of Israel to exist - though NOT (and this is significant) a Jewish state. <br /><br />The difference between approve (selected vague portions of) the Kairos document and commend for study (selected vague portions of) the Kairos document is not that great. (Outside of the GA such a difference is nominal - remember, for instance, Jim Berkley's comments on 'document creep'.) <br /><br />The difference in US aid to Israel is actually worse than the original - because the first speaks only of military aid, while the second expands this to all aid.<br /><br />The only real (potentially dramatic positive) improvement was the elimination of the idea that the MESC would become a permanent monitoring group. But this depends entirely on the good faith of the moderators to choose candidates who are representative. The original MESC had, in essence, the same requirement - and that clearly was not followed.<br /><br />So - while the ACSWP does misrepresent, it is merely a difference of horribly bad and slightly less bad.will spottshttp://wspotts.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-49826279948480894912010-08-16T08:42:04.683-07:002010-08-16T08:42:04.683-07:00I know Bob,
But I also know there have been some l...I know Bob,<br />But I also know there have been some leadership changes. So I keep hoping-and writing-and praying.Viola Larsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09146967423654966140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-75691960113618584042010-08-15T13:49:19.232-07:002010-08-15T13:49:19.232-07:00Viola
You didn't actually expect the GA offic...Viola<br /><br />You didn't actually expect the GA offices and the ACSWP to actually obey a GA order or tell the truth about what happened at GA did you?<br /><br />Remember back (I think it was in 2001) when the GA instructed a GAC office to write a new sex education curriculum? First they said that they had to wait until the curriculum they had was gone (which curriculum was terrible which is why the GA instructed them to write a new version) I don't remember what other excuses they made but I don't think the curriculum was ever produced.<br /><br />Then the ACSWP disobeyed the open meeting policy. When told they had to have open meeting (after a round of fights with Mark Tammen they were ultimately told they couldn't have private meetings. Then they closed sub committee meetings to the press. Then they said that the press couldn't have the papers that the committee members and staff had. After being shot down on this they told the press that they could only have the papers during the meeting and then they had to give them back! All of this was not just the Layman but also the PNC and the Outlook. <br /><br />We should trust these people because?Pastor Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10510081361292855641noreply@blogger.com