tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post5144404789806977964..comments2024-03-12T08:04:47.314-07:00Comments on Naming His Grace: We get Letters ... on forbearanceViola Larsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09146967423654966140noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-28838869039125950692015-06-18T08:15:18.558-07:002015-06-18T08:15:18.558-07:00Thank you James, I read a little and will read the...Thank you James, I read a little and will read the whole. There is that tension in Calvin and it is important for the whole church.Viola Larsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09146967423654966140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-63592674534924413882015-06-18T04:02:05.604-07:002015-06-18T04:02:05.604-07:00Viola:
Thank you for this. You might be intereste...Viola:<br /><br />Thank you for this. You might be interested in the tensions between the unity of the church and the holiness of the church in the writings of John Calvin as explored in this paper: http://www.foundationrt.org/writings/The_Church_One_and_Holy.pdf<br /><br />Dr. James C. Goodloe IVDr. James C. Goodloe IVnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-1224439227903211872015-06-17T09:36:49.271-07:002015-06-17T09:36:49.271-07:00Viola,
I have been >reading< the Bible. &qu...Viola,<br /><br />I have been >reading< the Bible. "My" ideas are not mine, they come from the Bible. Do you really not recognize them? Perhaps I read it through lenses you do not. But it is still the Bible that I am reading.<br /><br />You quoted John twice. What do those quotes mean? When you answer that question you will have uttered interpretation and doctrine. For example, the Evangelical reading of "no one comes to the Father but through me" is "no one comes to the Father [unless he chooses and says] but through me". A more accurate - contextual - interpretation is probably "no one comes to the Father [unless I say so]" <br /><br />After all, from the opening verses in John, isn't the Gospel of John telling us that Jesus is the ultimate "I say so"? I sometimes think that gets lost in translation.<br /><br />Your third paragraph is a statement of doctrine starting with the word "essential", loosely paraphrasing my point number 4. I think also that you will find that the Church fathers were writing more years after Jesus than we are after the Civil War. A lot happened in that time period. A whole splitting of the ways between Christianity and Judaism. The Temple was utterly destroyed, and Jerusalem was burned to the ground not once but twice. A whole apocalypse. <br /><br />But if you want to make it a doctrine, prayer is the topic of the Text nearly 50 times in the Gospels and about 150 times in the whole New Testament. As prominently a role as it plays in Scripture, you would think that it would be at the top of the list of doctrines that the orthodox champion. Why isn't it? I suppose it doesn't get the mention it deserves because it's a method more than a doctrine. Orthodoxy doesn't dwell on method. <br /><br />And that is where it is fundamentally flawed. <br /><br />I wonder though, since you have never really spoken of it, what kind of a gift, as you put it, would you say prayer is? What does it do for you? No rhetorical agenda in asking, just curious.<br /><br />I would reflect back to you your last paragraph and say that Jesus certainly teaches doctrine, but doctrine is not the sum total of Christianity. Not by a long shot.<br /><br />JodieJodiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15447125159108080797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-51508680357919386802015-06-16T22:25:53.051-07:002015-06-16T22:25:53.051-07:00Andy thank you and I love the Muggeridge quote.Andy thank you and I love the Muggeridge quote.Viola Larsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09146967423654966140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-3745030536811116962015-06-16T22:23:27.286-07:002015-06-16T22:23:27.286-07:00Jodie,
Sometimes I wonder where your ideas come fr...Jodie,<br />Sometimes I wonder where your ideas come from. Jesus taught what we today call doctrine. He taught scriptural truth because the word is His truth. "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through me." That is truth and it is doctrine and it is what the true church has always taught. It has not changed.<br /><br />"I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die." That is truth and it is doctrine and it is what the true church has always taught. It has not changed.<br /><br />There are no essential doctrines of Christianity that have ever been changed because of a scribes error in copying the text-any problems have been simple and un-profound. Almost all of the New Testament text can be found in the writings of the early church fathers. You simply have read misinformation. I wonder what you have been reading?<br /><br />Prayer is a wonderful gift that God gives and Jesus certainly teaches us to pray but this is not the sum total of Christianity.<br /><br />Viola Larsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09146967423654966140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-76745313467589088662015-06-16T11:58:52.326-07:002015-06-16T11:58:52.326-07:00That's funny: "Is God necessary for the K...That's funny: "Is God necessary for the Kingdom of God?" Sometimes you hear the dumbest things in church...But if you have no idea what either of them are,... I take comments like that as an opportunity. <br /><br />Like when a woman friend of mine (MS from MIT no less) visited a cathedral in Europe and came out horrified at this statue she saw of a woman being served a plate with a man's head on it. "What is up with that???!!" she asked.<br /><br />JodieJodiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15447125159108080797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-2847175535088898192015-06-16T06:09:34.050-07:002015-06-16T06:09:34.050-07:00Viola Thank you for your scholarship, discernment ...Viola Thank you for your scholarship, discernment and the clarity of your posts. At a time when the Westar's God seminar has through the casting of colored beads determined that the subject matter of theology is not God and is now ready to take on the fundamental and first question: Is God necessary for the Kingdom of God, one has to wonder if we haven't reached the point Muggeridge described of having "educated ourselves into imbecility". I thank God for your voice which is sorely needed at such a time as this.<br /><br />Andy Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17180751106233839028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-89101078411885007702015-06-15T23:26:35.527-07:002015-06-15T23:26:35.527-07:00Viola, you are back!
The problem with the charge ...Viola, you are back!<br /><br />The problem with the charge of “heresy” in the Reformed Protestant tradition, is that it is nearly impossible to sustain. The Roman Catholic Church bases its teachings on its own internally authoritative doctrines. Disobedience to those doctrines is disobedience to the Church. <br /><br />But in the Protestant Church we claim to base our doctrines on the Scriptures alone. <br /><br />The doctrines from which one could deviate and be charged of “heresy” are therefore based on numerous unsustainable claims: 1) that God’s laws are knowable and 2) revealed in Scripture in modern day language, 3) without the need for interpretation, or 4) that all prior interpretation is trustworthy and correct.<br /> <br />But history and science have shown those claims to be false: 1) because the scriptures themselves as we have them have been altered and pieced together from damaged fragments and copies, often of untraceable origins, 2) translated and interpreted into modern languages 3) subjected to further layers of interpretation in their reading, often taken out of historical or literary context, and 4) since humans are in the loop, the layers of interpretation are by necessity deeply flawed.<br /> <br />The fact is that the Church often changes its mind about what obedience to God really means. What is heresy at one time and place, is orthodoxy at another, and vice-versa.<br /> <br />The issue today, as I see it, is the error of basing faith on doctrine rather than method. Looking at the founders of our Faith we see by example after example that their faith was not based on doctrine at all, but on method. The most common of these being prayer. That was certainly the method preferred by Jesus. The only recorded thing the disciples ever asked Jesus to teach them was how to pray. It was the method of John the Baptist. Jesus, in the Garden, only asked of his disciples that they pray with him. And it was the method of all the post resurrection Apostles.<br /> <br />The “danger” of course is that in prayer, we can change our minds. Or we might even change the mind of God. <br /> <br />This method has been found to always be true regardless of time or place or language or culture. It is through prayer that we adhere to the Spirit of the Gospel. <br /><br />There may a spirit calling churches to leave our denomination, but whether it is God’s Spirit doing the calling, that remains to be demonstrated.<br /><br />And if anyone is interested in the ethics and orthodoxy of changing our minds, I recommend leading Evangelical ethicist David Gushee’s book “Changing our Minds”. <br /><br />Jodie Gallo<br />Los Angeles, CAJodiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15447125159108080797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-12851044878625759102015-06-15T16:23:28.607-07:002015-06-15T16:23:28.607-07:00I thought it was bad when our AC sent out a congre...I thought it was bad when our AC sent out a congregational survey in which it lied multiple times in an attempt to sway peoples votes.<br /><br />I'm glad our journey in the PCUSA is over.<br /><br />Craig<br />Twin Cities, MNCraighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17149415942585847184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-70658301389484848012015-06-15T12:12:37.483-07:002015-06-15T12:12:37.483-07:00Thanks Joe. I knew that and then forgot, not sure ...Thanks Joe. I knew that and then forgot, not sure how.Viola Larsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09146967423654966140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-65577807214482524012015-06-15T11:11:05.495-07:002015-06-15T11:11:05.495-07:00Viola,
I found that letter on forbearance that yo...Viola,<br /><br />I found that letter on forbearance that you referenced. It is here: http://308de48b1c66600c1bbd-d8590c8a28c33460e15368faedce8b94.r0.cf2.rackcdn.com/uploaded/a/0e3789625_1414597465_a-theology-of-forbearance-james-calvin-davis.pdf<br /><br />Note the writer's name is "James Calvin Davis," rather than "James Calvin."Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12993409142122347158noreply@blogger.com