tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post4506440859900575576..comments2024-03-12T08:04:47.314-07:00Comments on Naming His Grace: The Israel/Palestine Mission Network posts a film put together by those espousing radical Islamic views of Israel. UP-dateViola Larsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09146967423654966140noreply@blogger.comBlogger70125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-35912235710729771972017-05-16T09:37:15.130-07:002017-05-16T09:37:15.130-07:00AB, most of that information you will find here an...AB, most of that information you will find here and there on this blog, but thanks for posting it. I do have to tell you that generally I do not accept comments without the full name and city of the person so please next time you wish to comment let the readers know who you are.Viola Larsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09146967423654966140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-90064743214532825332017-05-16T08:46:50.695-07:002017-05-16T08:46:50.695-07:004. The term occupied land is actually and technica...4. The term occupied land is actually and technically incorrect. By international and legal defenition the land is "disputed territory". The land prior to the state of Israel was under the Ottoman Empire and rule. The Turks prior to that. The romans prior to that and the Jews prior to that. There was never a Palestinian country, state, empire or rule. Never in history. Furthermore, prior to "Greater Israel" the West Bank and east Jerusalem was under Jordanian rule and the Gazza strip was under Egyptian rule. Oddly enough there was no calls of occupation and no demands of a "Palestinian" soveigrnty. Not until the Jews came into power over the areas did the Palestinians decide they were even a people different than Jordanians or Southern Syrians as they referrrd to themselves. <br /><br />5. Still to this day Israel is willing to negotiate peace and live side by side with a Palestinian state. Regardless of any settlements. Land swaps can be made, settlements dismantled, and Jewish Israelis if need be, be forcibly evacuated from areas, as has been proven with gazza, if in the name of peace. <br /><br /> <br />P.s. The real problem is the theft of land by the Jordanians when they seized most of the land in Transjordan (Balfour Declaration) which was to be used for the arabs. But the Jordanians stole the land which is now Jordan forcing the Jews and arabs to split a much smaller amount of land. <br /><br />Frankly anyone with an open mind who seeks the truth will find it. The 2.2 billion Muslims make up nearly 25% of the worlds population and are taught daily from Childhood and in the Quran That Jews are their enemy and need to be destroyed. The 13 million Jews worldwide is .00162% of the worlds population. (20% of israels population is Muslim arabs that wouldn't want to live in any muslim Arab country over Israel)So which peoples "narrative" do you think will be heard louder and more often and with much more consistency? You hear the same lie enough times you start to believe it. It's easy to understand why so many people believe<br />the lies about Jews/Israelis especially when those telling the lies have all the oil we need for literally everything from<br />Fuel to cosmetics to plastics. Plus its a helluva lot easier to just go along with the crowd and finally it takes serious moral and mental fortitude to believe in something different than what everyone else believes in. Scapegoating others comes so naturally to humans. <br /><br />I'm willing to respectfully debate anyone on any subject regarding Israel. Using facts and citing said FactsABhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13136967980275450882noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-22762461081513927242017-05-16T08:45:14.729-07:002017-05-16T08:45:14.729-07:00I realize I'm joining this conversation 8 year...I realize I'm joining this conversation 8 years later but I feel John is missing some fundamental pieces of information when creating his opinions and positions and in the event others like myself stumble across this blog in the future I think some facts missing from<br />Here should be added. I'll list just a few major points. <br /><br />1. Why no mention of the Jewish Nakbah? Where 900,000-1,000,000 Jews were either murdered, expelled, and/or forced to give up their homes and lands that they owned in Arab countries for generations and generations. These Jewish refugees from Egypt, Iran, Syria, iraq, Lebanon, Libya, Jordan, etc etc etc were absorbed into Israel. These refugees were being created once Israel was only a thought in the early 1900s-the middle of the century. See for yourself the Jewish populations in Muslim countries over the last 100 yrs. Just as every other single group of refugees in history was absorbed into the neighboring countries in which they found themselves. Every single group of refugees in history..... except the so called Palestinians. Why? The right of return is just another weapon for Islam to use to destroy the Jewish state. From 700,000 refugees to now more than 7 million would immediately turn Israel into a Muslim majority. All Muslims hate Israel ina show of "solidarity" with the Palestinian cause yet not one country will take in a Palestinian refugee and make them a citizen? Instead they let them rot for decades in refugee camps in their country. <br /><br /><br />2. Jews were known as Palestinians until 1948. When overnight Palestinian Jews became Israeli Jews. It was then that yasser Arafat and the Arab league took over the name Palestinians to also use as a political weapon against Israel while giving the group of arab families living in the area from many different surrounding Arab countries a singular identity. You will not find any Muslim<br />Palestinian history, people, culture, or society of any kind before 1948. In fact it's quite easy to see where a Muslim Palestinian family came from simply by looking at their last name. Check here... https://m.liveleak.com/view?i=47c_1358574333<br /><br />3. Israel has agreed to no less than 6 times to peace and a 2 state solution. In fact twice they were offered even more land than they themselves demanded during peace talks (Ohmert). Each and every time they refused their own state. I understand maybe you aren't getting all the land you want but at some point don't you start with your new sovereign state, whatever it may be, and start to build something? Something is better than nothing after 60 years no? And while the pals continue to reject every possible offer the Israelis should just not continue to move forward in building their state? They build communities on land that the Palestinians don't want... at least not until all of the land is theirs. Pals need to start building a country. Take in your fellow people who are refugees, create jobs, educate your young, build better lives for the future of your people instead of continuing to feel sorry for yourself while begging for financial aid from the world. There's no reason you can't continue to negotiate with Israel on items while building your own nation. But you see that's the whole point. If you agree and accept a pal state you agree to a Jewish state and the whole point is to destroy Israel and the Jews. Not share the land as neighbors. <br />ABhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13136967980275450882noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-7480150768371831872009-11-20T09:10:28.240-08:002009-11-20T09:10:28.240-08:00John
I don't know if you are just engaged in ...John<br /><br />I don't know if you are just engaged in the conversation with others or what. But if you look back over the posts you will find that I agree with you about several issues including settlements and some history.<br /><br />It would be nice if you acknowledged when people try to hear you and agree with you to they extent that they (I) can.<br /><br />Bob Campbell<br />Sharon Hill, PAPastor Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07787179002120424157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-79409032001092816732009-11-19T23:57:19.237-08:002009-11-19T23:57:19.237-08:00Hi,
I think as Christians, we need to uphold Chris...Hi,<br />I think as Christians, we need to uphold Christian virtues. It seems to me that taking in refugees fleeing for their lives is a Christian act. That is, Palestinians who started the 36 Revolt to stop Jews fleeing Hitler were acting in a fundamentally immoral way. Likewise, in 45-8, they could have seen the results of their earlier policy, repented, and offered a home to the survivors still fleeing Europe. They didnt. They could even have accepted any one of the peace plans offered as an alternative to war - the Peel commission, Anglo American, UN, Red Cross etc. Each were accepted by Israel, rejected by the Palestinian leadership up to and including Olmerts offer. Why do western churches support Palestinian christians who place their ethnicity above their faith?Palestinian Christians deliberately chose to side with their moslem fellow Arabs against showing a Christ like attitude to their Jewish neighours. One could say that their suffering as a result is suffering for their apostacy. Palestinian suffering is not proof of Palestinian innocence - equally, when churches call "tear down this wall", they place Palestinian inconvinience as a higher priority than Israeli lives - hardly a moral position. When western churches back the palestinian political adgenda, they betray their own moral values.Colin Christiannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-1094717916147041532009-11-19T13:38:21.997-08:002009-11-19T13:38:21.997-08:00Of course I can distinguish between the Jewish peo...Of course I can distinguish between the Jewish people and the Israeli government. My husband has occasionally worked with people from the Jewish Defense League and other such groups, and even they have said to him that Israel (the country) has done things wrong, and I agree.<br /><br />But what looks dangerous to Viola and others is when groups like the IPMN start saying things like "Jews control the US media". That is not anti-Israel, that is anti-Jew. This is the distinction that is troubling. This is what must be guarded against. Those who advocate for Palestinians must be careful not to extend their support for them and dislike for the country Israel to an attitude of persecution against Jews, which is showing up more and more in the U.S.A., including things like using this video deceptively as the IPMN did (shown by the video maker's comments, which contradicted what they said about it.) And the PCUSA must also be more balanced in its attitude towards the controversy. This was even something passed at the last GA, that the PCUSA would be more balanced, and yet it continues over and over to advocate solely for the Palestinians and against Israel. That is the other concern. I am not advocating dropping concern for the Palestinians and advocating solely for Israel. I am advocating fairness and balance, and reporting facts correctly.<br /><br />Debbie Berkley<br />Bellevue, WADebbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01755638934636386391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-79357613297111185372009-11-19T12:00:37.926-08:002009-11-19T12:00:37.926-08:00Dear Debbie,
I'm sorry that I have come acros...Dear Debbie,<br /><br />I'm sorry that I have come across to you in such a way as you describe. It is not at all my intention to suggest that you or Viola or David or others are mean-spirited.<br /><br />I simply feel very strongly that what Israel is doing to the Palestinians is horribly wrong and I feel a need to advocate for them frequently and oppose the policy of the Israeli government and the US government. <br /><br />I wonder if you can make a huge distinction between the government of Israel and the Jewish people. The Israeli government is causing enormous pain with the enormous support of the US government.<br /><br />I have nothing but admiration for the Jewish people both as an ethnic group and as the people of one of the world's great wisdom traditions.<br /><br />Again, I feel the need to say what I said yesterday and will say as often as necessary: <b>I believe the strong Presbyterian support of the Palestinian cause is motivated totally by empathy and compassion and real facts on the ground and not hatred toward Jews.</b> <br /><br />love,<br />John A Wilde<br />Whitesboro NYAbundancetrekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02172605993275056084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-76297234422117455382009-11-18T19:52:44.218-08:002009-11-18T19:52:44.218-08:00Dexter the ADL piece was there before they took th...Dexter the ADL piece was there before they took the video down. I still want to thank whoever helped get them to take it down. And I want to thank you and everyone else who stood up for truth.Viola Larsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09146967423654966140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-74842173119356101282009-11-18T19:00:00.241-08:002009-11-18T19:00:00.241-08:00Viola is correct. The video (which apparently, has...Viola is correct. The video (which apparently, has been taken down) is filled with misinformation. <br /><br />The Sharon quote is, as others have said, is a fabrication, taken, if I recall correctly, from a Hamas press release. <br /><br />The accusation of Israel swallowing up the West Bank and the Gaza Strip is also unfair and dishonest. Israel tried to negotiate a land for peace deal after the Six Day War only to be met with the Three Nos of Khartoum in which the Arab League said no negotiations, no recognition, no peace with Israel.<br /><br />If you look at the attack on the ADL on the IPMN's site, you can see what the site is about. Antagonizing the Jewish community in the U.S.<br /><br />They took down the video and then put up an attack on the ADL.<br /><br />Three things are becoming increasingly obvious.<br /><br />1. The relentless anti-Israelism of the so-called peace activists in mainline churches is not conducive to peace.<br /><br />2. The relentless anti-Israelism of these activists is poisoning the interfaith relationships these churches say they want to have with the Jewish community.<br /><br />3. (And this is a biggie.) The relentless and vehement anti-Israelism of the so-called peace activists is having a poisonous effect on the religious life of the churches they are trying to influence. This is the point Viola has made in another post. Even those who are legitimately sympathetic to the Palestinian cause have reason to wonder why IPMN would post the (mis)information it has displayed on its site.<br /><br />This is an organization charged with educating the PC(USA) about the conflict and its posting links to Al Manar and to video like "I am Israel."<br /><br />Who do they think they are kidding.<br /><br />The debate is finally getting to the point where people like Viola are starting to ask what type of church they want to have.<br /><br />That's been the ultimate issue all along. <br /><br />Amen and Amen.Dexter Van Zilehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03074355698633723579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-75179622764816968662009-11-18T13:31:31.690-08:002009-11-18T13:31:31.690-08:00John, you said that everyone here was focused on d...John, you said that everyone here was focused on defending Jewish people without talking enough about Palestinian people. Right, focusing on defense of Jewish people is the point of this blog posting. It's to point out anti-Jewish sentiments that are dangerously cropping up in the PCUSA. If anti-Palestinian sentiments were dangerously cropping up instead, we would be pointing them out, but they are not, so we don't need to worry about that at this point. We can defend the Palestinians in a different forum if need be. But defending them here is taking away from the point of this blog posting, which is to point out anti-Jewish sentiments that are dangerously and subtly making their way into the PCUSA.<br /><br />Now, about me, you said that you believe that I "also attempted to sidetrack the debate by bringing up the Wall." No, I didn't. I had not the least thought of sidetracking the debate. I thought I was merely responding to things you had said, such as "that the Palestinian natives might feel just a little angry at what has happened to their lives". You are the one who has injected malicious motives into what I said. When you do things like that, or like saying that we are all "unconditional" supporters of Israel, you inject rancor into this debate that did not previously exist. Do not demonize your debate opponents. Just because we have different opinions from you, this does not mean that we are mean-spirited people.<br /><br />Debbie Berkley<br />Bellevue, WADebbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01755638934636386391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-50061426095609210592009-11-18T08:14:31.945-08:002009-11-18T08:14:31.945-08:00John,
Excuse me but saying this, "As for the...John,<br /><br />Excuse me but saying this, "As for the video, most if not all the facts are real and I think the anger is justified but I am listening to you because I also know that Jews have a lot of good reasons to be concerned. I hope you can see that I am making a sincere effort to separate the policies of Israel and the USA (very immoral in my opinion) from the Jewish ethnic group and community of faith which is wonderful," is just off the wall.<br /><br />Not even most of the video screed is true. That has already been demostrated both by some things in my posting and by a posting done by Dexter on his web site, plus what he has stated here.<br /><br />Saying that the video is mostly true is not dialogue it is agreement with all of those who are spouting anti-Semitism. <br />Viola Larson<br />Sacramento, CaViola Larsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09146967423654966140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-50645248326742171342009-11-18T07:53:57.510-08:002009-11-18T07:53:57.510-08:00Dear Dexter,
Thanks for your response. It is goo...Dear Dexter,<br /><br />Thanks for your response. It is good to share. I don't appreciate your judgments however. God is my Judge and not you.<br /><br />If I have erred on the side of over-appreciating the Palestinian despair and under-appreciating the Israeli despair, then maybe I can change but nothing you said has led me to that conclusion. I simply see what's happening and what has happened in a very different way than you do. <br /><br />We all find quotes and facts to back our positions. What I am hoping for is that we somehow get beyond the competing narratives and get to the real truth and then to the miracle and wonder of true reconciliation and justice and peace.<br /><br />As for the video, most if not all the facts are real and I think the anger is justified but I am listening to you because I also know that Jews have a lot of good reasons to be concerned. I hope you can see that I am making a sincere effort to separate the policies of Israel and the USA (very immoral in my opinion) from the Jewish ethnic group and community of faith which is wonderful.<br /><br />love,<br />John A Wilde<br />Whitesboro NYAbundancetrekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02172605993275056084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-76566294511980544682009-11-18T07:06:52.914-08:002009-11-18T07:06:52.914-08:00“I think labels get in the way of helpful dialogue...“I think labels get in the way of helpful dialogue.”<br /><br />I find this passage kind of ironic given that it comes from someone who has accused people who disagree with him as being in “total denial” and accused people who thought Camp David was a legitimate offer as buying into a “fantasy” and has accused Israel of pursuing illegal and immoral goals. And then he accused Israel of offering Palestinians “Bantustans.”<br /><br />Regardless of what you think about the Israeli offer at Camp David, there’s one fact that Israelis need to contend with: Arafat did not make a counter offer. <br /><br />Moreover, Prince Bandar of Saudi Arabia told Arafat that it would be “a crime” if he did not accept the Clinton Parameters (which Israel accepted) offered a few months after Camp David. Arafat still said no.<br /><br />John’s insistence that everyone declare that Israeli settlements in the West Bank as illegal and immoral is an attempt to pre-determine the outcome of negotiations of a final settlement that can only be made between Israelis and Palestinians. Notions of morality and legality are easy to fling about thousands of miles from the conflict, but the Israelis contend with strategic concerns as well as moral issues. <br /><br />What happens if Israel does the right thing in John’s book withdraws from the West Bank and the violence does not cease? Or worse, what happens if it increases, as it has in the past. (See my post above.)<br /><br />In January 2006, then Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said that Israel has a moral and legal right to Judea and Samaria, but that in order to maintain the goal of a Jewish state, it is necessary to cede most of this territory to the Palestinians. <br /><br />During the Oslo Accords, the Israelis had hoped that yielding territory would lead to peace. They turned a blind eye to Arafat’s support for terrorism in the 1990s, and called anyone who tried to draw attention to his support for violence against Israel even as he negotiated as an enemy of peace. This came to an end with the Second Intifada. The Israeli peace movement lost a lot of credibility in Israel because of the violence.<br /><br />Here’s what I wrote in a previous article <br /><br />“After the collapse of the Camp David Process, peace-loving Israelis were devastated and many of them laid the blame squarely on the Arab inability to accept Israel’s right to exist. Hirsh Goodman had this to say at the height of the Second Intifada in 2002: “I supported Oslo. I supported talking with Arafat. The greatest disappointment was to discover that despite everything I've believed, everything I've promulgated, that [expletive] never gave up terror.” (We never saw that quote in any background documents prepared by the activists and church staffers now did we?)<br /><br />“Goodman was not the only peace activist to take a different attitude after the Second Intifada. This is how a liberal pro-peace Israeli Jew (who will be left nameless) responded to the “Tear Down the Wall” resolution passed by the United Church of Christ in 2005: “When I hear churches in the U.S. tell us to tear down the wall, it makes me want to build another one right behind it.”<br /><br />John wants us to understand and acknowledge the despair faced by the Palestinians. This is entirely legitimate. <br /><br />Mainliners, however, have to understand what happened to the Israeli peace movement and the despair Israelis feel.<br /><br />John writes in a pretty dismissive and contemptible tone toward Israelis. Sitting thousands of miles from the conflict and in the relative safety of the U.S., he sits in judgment on people who are at their wits end as to how to bring an end to the conflict. They’ve tried unilateral withdrawal and it brought more violence. <br /><br />Take a look at Israeli history over the past few years, and then take a look at John’s moralizing and ask how you would respond to what he’s written if you were an Israeli. Take a look at the resolutions passed by mainline churches in the aftermath of the Second Intifada. Then ask yourself how you would respond.Dexter Van Zilehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03074355698633723579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-22512813722621410012009-11-18T05:40:45.019-08:002009-11-18T05:40:45.019-08:00Bob,
I appreciate what you're conveying, and ...Bob,<br /><br />I appreciate what you're conveying, and agree with you. I just wish Viola would be as fair minded as you are. Her particular criticism of the IPMN appears to me to be nothing more than hypocrisy, whereas yours does not.<br /><br />I'm reminded of something Viola wrote on this blog back on August 27th:<br /><br />"What a sorry half story, and because of that a false story. Truly what sinners we all are."<br /><br />I assume she can do better (likewise the IPMN). She just hasn't up to this point.<br /><br />Kattie<br />Huntsville, AlKattiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12313727490126385824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-68758119792134251112009-11-17T21:41:07.625-08:002009-11-17T21:41:07.625-08:00I realize that this is probably a hopeless attempt...I realize that this is probably a hopeless attempt but I suspect everyone here is willing to admit there is sin on both sides. I think we all might agree that the best place for a division between Israel and Palestine is along the blue line or a mutually agreed upon exchange of land. Water rights and Jerusalem I think are the real sticking points.<br /><br />BUT<br /><br />Claiming as the video did that all the Jews came from Europe is simply false. There has been a Jewish community in the land between the Mediterranean and the Jordan for thousands of years. They were a minority to be sure but they were there. They were chased out of Hebron and attacked in the old Jewish Quarter in Jerusalem.<br /><br />More came later from Europe and I don't think anyone here will complain about their wanting to get out of Europe. The fact is that no nation wanted Jews from Europe in the 1930's including the USA. Where were they supposed to go? The only place they were accepted was Palestine. Well, they were accepted by the British for a while and rejected by some Palestinians who rioted and killed some of them. But what were they supposed to do, stay in Europe and die?<br /><br />And sure Jews came to Israel from other countries in the Middle East and North Africa. They were kicked out and their possessions were kept by their neighbors or governments. Where were they supposed to go? The only country that accepted them was Israel. Curiously there would have been less Jews in Israel in 1955 if the governments in North Africa and the Middle East had simply continued to accept the Jews in their midst. But those Jews had to be persecuted because of the existence of Israel. <br /><br />The video fails to mention these facts. And as it talks about chasing people into the sea it fails to mention that in 1967 Egypt said it was going to do so. I was alive then and I remember. Should the Israelis have ignored these threats? <br /><br />So I want two countries with safe and secure borders in Israel/Palestine. Of course no one over there is listening to me. And to be fair I don't have to live there.<br /><br />But propaganda from either side doesn't help the situation. And this video is propaganda. Some of the things it says are clearly antisemitic. <br /><br />But there are parts of the video that are accurate. Begin was involved in a massacre. If he was Palestinian we would call him a terrorist.<br /><br />I've also have seen the propaganda from the settlers and talked with some American Zionists who do indeed want to chase all the Palestinians out of "Greater Israel." <br /><br />Nobody's hands are clean. If there were rational people who were trusted they could probably come to a just settlement. But the non rational people on both sides would then kill them. Look what happened to Rabin and Sadat! Too many people on both sides don't want a just settlement. <br /><br />But when a group of Presbyterians who call themselves the Israel/Palestine Mission Network that should call itself the Palestinian support network links to this garbage I get angry. I want my denomination to support a just solution for both sides. The IPMN supports one side. And that is wrong.Pastor Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07787179002120424157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-33177924468826791992009-11-17T16:38:16.574-08:002009-11-17T16:38:16.574-08:00John,
Amen to that Brother.
Kattie
Huntsville,Al...John,<br /><br />Amen to that Brother.<br /><br />Kattie<br />Huntsville,AlKattiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12313727490126385824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-74863400708502033102009-11-17T16:28:49.693-08:002009-11-17T16:28:49.693-08:00Viola,
You've deleted comments of mine in the...Viola,<br /><br />You've deleted comments of mine in the past sometimes for what I could only consider misinterpretation on your part, other times they have been deleted for possibly just reasons, but this time I'm having a hard time trying to figure out exactly what I actually wrote that could have been offensive.<br /><br />What images did my words conjure up in your mind? Remember that those images belong to you, not me.<br /><br />I insulted no one, but referred to your "Consistory" cohort, as short hand for the three of you who were commenting on this thread. I did that because I didn't want Pastor Bob (not a member of the "Consistory") to come in and write the words for you, as I suspect he might (sorry Bob, please know that I have a lot of respect for you).<br /><br />Now, David seemed to assert that I would not be satisfied unless he answered every charge ever made against Israel. I calmly pointed out to him that to do so would be unnecessary and a waste of time, and that I would be satisfied with much less than that, but more than what has thus far been presented. His assertion was simply an insulting exaggeration of the truth. My response to him was neither sarcastic nor hyperbolic, nor insulting, like his were to me.<br /><br />Please explain your action here.<br /><br />Kattie<br />Huntsville, AlKattiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12313727490126385824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-64661400817982531372009-11-17T16:27:39.997-08:002009-11-17T16:27:39.997-08:00Dear Friends,
I think labels get in the way of he...Dear Friends,<br /><br />I think labels get in the way of helpful dialogue. I have stated that the video is indeed unbalanced but I think the label of "anti-Semitic" (or "garbage" or "ignorant" or "evil" or "dishonest") gets in the way of helpful dialogue because it becomes a convenient way to dismiss the legitimacy of Palestinian anger and frustration toward Israel. The video presents a lot of information which is accurate. Some statements reveal a lot of anger and even hatred which should indeed be criticized.<br /><br />But I think it is important to understand and appreciate the depth of Palestinian despair. Their homeland has been overwhelmingly devastated by the events of the past 92 years since Britain and then Israel dominated their part of the world. The Palestinians have lost far too many lives, livelihoods, resources, trees, gardens and fields during the years of the ongoing Nakba. <br /><br />I am looking for as much appreciation of Palestinians as I see of Jews and I simply don't see it in the positions taken by Viola and others here.<br /><br />John Wilde<br />Whitesboro NYAbundancetrekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02172605993275056084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-49386048953011088362009-11-17T13:07:04.446-08:002009-11-17T13:07:04.446-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Kattiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12313727490126385824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-37739479086123795852009-11-17T12:21:09.263-08:002009-11-17T12:21:09.263-08:00Viola: I appreciate your affirmation.
Kattie: Ta...Viola: I appreciate your affirmation. <br /><br />Kattie: Take <i>what</i> question seriously? "Is that all?" What do you want, a formal confession to every charge ever made against Israel? Is that the only way you and John will take seriously what Bob contended and I attempted to provide proof for, namely, that the supporters of Israel among Viola's readers don't support it "unconditionally?" <br /><br />David Fischler<br />Woodbridge, VAAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-43774933098566440262009-11-17T11:29:36.884-08:002009-11-17T11:29:36.884-08:00Which "facts" are you referring to Toby?...Which "facts" are you referring to Toby?<br /><br />Kattie<br />Huntsville, AlKattiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12313727490126385824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-27016470951249948402009-11-17T11:16:18.268-08:002009-11-17T11:16:18.268-08:00I guess the facts are no longer "Christian&qu...I guess the facts are no longer "Christian".<br /><br />LOL.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-45878307564383122632009-11-17T11:15:38.472-08:002009-11-17T11:15:38.472-08:00David thank you for your anger. Sometimes anger is...David thank you for your anger. Sometimes anger is appropriate and in this case it is.Viola Larsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09146967423654966140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-21814601830798832542009-11-17T11:04:29.680-08:002009-11-17T11:04:29.680-08:00David,
I think you made your point of view abunda...David,<br /><br />I think you made your point of view abundantly clear for all to see. The sarcasm speaks volumes. How sad. I hoped you would take the question more seriously.<br /><br />In what way is your response better than the video hyperbole Viola's post is about? Do you think your response is a proper Christian response?<br /><br />Kattie<br />Huntsville, AlKattiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12313727490126385824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7560220615271337359.post-59616632176845294172009-11-17T09:35:10.167-08:002009-11-17T09:35:10.167-08:00No, of course not, Katie. Israel was wrong to figh...No, of course not, Katie. Israel was wrong to fight back in 1948, when it could have solved the entire problem by disappearing. Ditto 1956, 1967, and 1973. It had no business withdrawing its settlements from Gaza in 2005, because it did so without the explicit permission of Hamas, Israel has no business killing any Palestinian, no matter how well armed or how many Jews he or she has killed, because to do so denies them their rights. Actually, Israel has no right to defend itself at all. It has no right to any of the land within its so-called borders, all of which was stolen from Arabs whose ancestors had lived there from pre-historic times. In fact, the world as well as the Palestinians would be far better off if the Israel didn't exist. Then everyone could just go about his business, and all would be sweetness and light. There would be no more Islamic terrorism, no more conflict between Christians and Muslims (or between Muslims and Hindus, or Muslims and Buddhists, or Muslims and Communists, the conflicts between which are all the fault of Israel, just as Israel has been at fault for everything that has gone wrong in the Middle East since it invaded five Arab nations in 1948, bent on a war of conquest that would result in Jews taking over the world), no more disease or poverty or war. It would be just as John Lennon wanted.<br /><br />Is that enough for you?<br /><br />/sarc<br /><br />David Fischler<br />Woodbridge, VAAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com